So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. Our interview continues tonight!!! It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? I hope to move on some day as well. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. Ive heard there might. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born. Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? They leave the church, but it doesn't leave them alone Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. Thanks! This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. I was a writer for 7th East Press. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Thank you John and Brent. That makes more sense. John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! how to delete casting call club account - Rodel.xyz A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS - Deseret News Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. Brent Metcalfe - Academia.edu Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. St. Martins Press. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. pigella miraculous ladybug power. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. So sorry Maxine! Or even presenting the center view? Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. http://mormonstories.org/brent-metcalfe-hofmann-bombings-excommunication-book-of-mormon/, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Research into the origins or Christianity strongly suggest that there are no babies only bathwater. Joseph Smiths myth-making leveraged Christian myth-making at the dawn of higher criticism. Thanks for this podcast! They are in a tough spot. This was an excellent broadcast! (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. Watch the full match. But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. Dissident LDS intellectuals say excommunications will continue Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. Brent Metcalfe on Hofmann aftermath, his own excommunication - reddit Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. Metcalfe (ed. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. I just wish that I could undo everything. Despite this, though, Brent found the courage to keep his head held high and began delving deep into the issues surrounding the Book of Mormon, a topic that he had been looking to examine since the early 1980s. Textual Criticism and Editing, Mormon studies, and Book of Mormon. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Come to the dark side and tell your story. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. In True Crime Series 'Murder Among the Mormons,' LDS Church Reckons Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. brent metcalfe excommunicated. John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. Excellent question. Im with you on the music Charles!! My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe Story - YouTube brent metcalfe excommunicated It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. Mormonism LIVE !: 025: The Adam God Deception - Radio Free Mormon Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? Examples would be projects at the Serpent Mounds in Ohio, linguists studying things like Native Americans singing in a language that seemed close to Hebrew,archaeological digs in latin America that were obviously BOM related, etc. "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. I had no idea what your beliefs were and it piqued my interest in part 1 where you talked about scripture being inspirational yet often times not historical. Thank you. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Jerald articulated his concerns in one of his ministrys publications. Brents words deepened my own thoughts on God, spiritually and humanity. I have that info direct from Mac himself. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Thanks for the interview both of you. She has become the matron saint of Mormon studies (that's a promotion from her previous role as the den mother of Mormon studies). Vol. https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. hope my comment wasnt insensitive! Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. Its done. this was fascinating, and I havent got to part 2 yet! It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. Brent Metcalf in California - Spokeo Brent Metcalf - University of Iowa Athletics In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. Re: [ZION] LDS Writer Expects to Be Excommunicated I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. what happens if i ignore a ccj; Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Thank you Brent and John. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. Sorry for my language, Im not a native English speaker and there is a limit to what I can express in English. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. When?? Since you worked for Steven Christensen, could you shed any light on the main reason why Steven purchased documents from Hoffman was it just to donate documents to the church? Thanks, John and Brent! It was soul-crushing, Brent said. Thanks again Brent! Reply. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? Sincerely, Terry. Is there a list of Mormon historians who were ex'd because of the Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. Brent Metcalf - Wrestling Coach - Iowa State University Athletics Best wishes, Brent! Thanks for the clarification. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. Its likely that our paths could have crossed. Brent Metcalf vs. Lance Palmer: 2010 NCAA title match (149 pounds) Brent, I can hardly wait for the rest! By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Great interview. brent metcalfe excommunicated - knowthemquicker.com Brent Metcalfe is definitely one - Mormon Stories Podcast - Facebook Brent Metcalfe - Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions - LinkedIn Leave a Reply Cancel reply. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. He has already saved her from choking on several occasions. I was a newly returned missionary at BYU when all of this took place. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. OMAHA, Neb. What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? That was fascinating, thank you. In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. Be the first to contribute! The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Published by on October 31, 2021. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. It shows how establishment Apologists from FAIR and Interpreter and the rest of the former FARMS crew only care about your academic achievements even if you actually do do serious research on the Book of Abraham. Unfortunately, much of the middle portion of the interview was lost due to technical issues that were only discovered after we completed the interview. I have some insights into that. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Wow John, what an interview. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. Brent, thank you so much for doing this interview! I love the podcasts. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. Should have added one more minor thing. But those were interesting times! Oh, that would be great! Hoffman was Laffertys cell mate. It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. The second half was fascinating thank you, thank you, thank you for this podcast! He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd? [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Privacy Policy. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Life changing! Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. Isnt that a dangerous and at least weak and anything goes approach, especially for fanatical groups? 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). @BHMetcalf. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. The 7th East Press was a gem. Brent Metcalf is entering his fifth season as a full-time assistant coach on Iowa State's wrestling staff. They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. 515-294-6532. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? Arent we to try to gain understanding about life and spirituality? News, Sports, Jobs - Daily Herald [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. Are there still more episodes of this series on the way?? But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. Part 1 of the interview stuck much closer to home for me. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. Its great to find all this background information. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. What are your views about these books and how some contemporary Mormon scholars approach them as catalytic for revelation, though they may not specifically be historical? :). "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. Youve used it well Brent. Unintended consequences here we come! During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Will there be more? Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud.
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